] [Thread] [Date] [Author]

["Dennis Wish" <dennis.wish(--nospam--at)verizon.net>]

I suppose that it is possible to modify AutoCAD Architecture 2008 to become
a BIM system since this is nothing more than keynoting and creating styles
that insert materials and track the material information. For example, if
you work in the Style format feature, you can custom design blocks as
multi-view blocks or simply as 3D blocks and define within the style tables
a reference to define attributes that pick up the length and the weight of
the material such as a steel section so if you draw a W12x35 ten feet long
it will be able to output the 350 pounds of steel into the table 
I use this to define shear walls (allowable shear, length, one or two sides,
thickness, nail size, boundary and field nailing etc.) In other words it is
similar to creating a custom platform where you build upon attributes and
then draw them out by defining the tables to tally all of the materials,
connectors, hardware, cubic yards of concrete etc. It is more work but the
way I've been working within the limits is to do it slowly and on each small
job - ultimately adding the work that I repeat often and new materials that
are coming into play. For example, I am now creating 3D Hardy Panels and
Frames so that they will appear in my schedules and also as part of the
MultiLat(tm) spreadsheet that transfers to my tables and shear wall
schedules in CAD. Also, drawing them as multi-view blocks allows me to
detail them in 3D or by side view, plan view, front view etc.
AutoCAD is a powerful package and while I see that the BIM is automated in
REVIT, it can be done in house on AutoCAD. If you think about what
connectors you use often and build tool pallets for example using walls and
connectors repeatedly from job to job, then the prospects of customizing
AutoCAD to do what REVIT provides is a matter of teaching you to have better
control over your software.

The greatest problem I have is that not one of my designers or Architects
use REVIT and while one Architect has upgraded to Architecture 2008, he is
not using it yet and continues to work the same way he did when he was using
releast R14 or R11. I've used AutoCAD since version 2.5 but it was not until
ADT 2007 that I understood the power and productivity of changing the way I
was used to drafting. I spent a lot of unproductive time learning, but it
would seem like a waste to have such as strong CAD program that is becoming
easier to use and with better online support and not take advantage of this.

Those of you who have maintained a subscription should be taking advantage
of the value of the upgrades and the online help that Autodesk provides. The
webcasts are exceptionally good and you can now download the webcasts and
view them off-line at your convenience. I've reviewed the Walls webcast and
the customization for creating a slab on grade with a turn down edge
multiple times until I learn it. The hardest part it to keep me from
wandering off track since there is so much to learn and it is easy to get
sidetracked.

I don't see the advantage to REVIT other than it creates very nice 3D views
supposedly as it actually looks, but in reality, I don't detail in 3D - I
detail in 2D so that it is very clear as to what I want constructed. 3D
helps me to identify conflicts in elevation where members converge off their
mark. In many cases the designer does not consider the needed space for
structural members and this becomes clear in 3D since you can show your
client how two roofs may or may not converge properly.

I also think we should be spending more time creating professional standards
to simplify the cross-platform compatibility between offices. This is
difficult, but if we don't work on then then it does not matter how uses
REVIT, AutoCAD, DataCAD, or any of the many CAD packages out there. The
negative side to all of this is the failure of Autodesk to accept a DWG
standard since they attempt to create a proprietary change with each years
new version. The DWG Alliance is failing since they were sued by Autodesk
who won the suit to protect their DWG format in court. I think this is a
setback for the Architecture and Engineering professions. We will all have
our favorite tools, but without a standard, our jobs become more complicated
working with new clients using different versions of the same or various
other CAD packages. DXF is not a standard that is worthwhile. Autodesk has
little to fear from allowing DWG to become a cross-platform standard since
the future of the software lies in the creation of new productivity tools
rather than protecting a drawing standard.

My $0.02 worth.
Dennis

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian S Bossley [mailto:BSBossley(--nospam--at)venturaengineering.com] 
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 6:17 AM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: RE: REVIT

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems from everyone that I've talked to
on the subject, that BIM (as it is right now) works best for new builds
or for modifying a building that already had a model created for it.
And all the views and sections that it generates are more of your
typical sections and details of beam to column or gusset connections
here or there.

I am trying to feel out the advantages of using Revit in something like
an existing industrial facility.  And I'm assuming here that I get all
of the field information on framing, ductwork, conduits, piping, etc and
I just draw it in 3D similar to the way we do it all in 2D.

For example, if I were to add an equipment platform tying into the
existing columns and beams and working around existing foundations and
possibly reinforcing this beam or that column, then will BIM show all
the messy connections that I can get into?  How is reinforcing dealt
with?  All the structural packages I've seen struggle with showing a
reinforced beam or column - I always have to input the properties to get
accurate results.  If I export my model to BIM, it'd probably look like
my W24 transitions to a 1/2" diameter rod for the middle 2/3 of its
length.


-----Original Message-----
From: Donald Bruckman [mailto:bruckmandesign(--nospam--at)verizon.net] 
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 3:57 PM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: RE: REVIT

I think I paid about $2400 or something like that to upgrade to both a
Revit
and ACAD dual license, and it costs about $7-800 a year for the
subscription.

IMO, LT probably makes sense over ADT if you aren't moving up to Revit.
When I did structural drawings in ADT on my own stuff, I used mostly
ACAD
commands anyway.  I got very little out of ADT on the structural side of
things.  

Revit, OTOH, has everything integrated into the model, so you very
quickly
figure out where things are and can cut sections and details,
(theoretically) on the fly in real time.  There is even a cross-check
between disciplines that I can use to ensure the HVAC guy didn't run a
duct
through your beam or shear wall. (This they've told me.  I've yet to see
it
for real).  I will say that I get the distinct notion (from nowhere in
particular, but just one of those gut feelings) that the
interoperability of
Revit across disciplines may be a bit shaky yet. They seem to be
spending
too much time talking about it and issuing new versions, so perhaps it's
not
quite ready for prime time.

I will say this about REVIT.  The automatic cross-referencing and
scheduling
alone is worth the money.  

Don B


-----Original Message-----
From: Jordan Truesdell, PE [mailto:seaint1(--nospam--at)truesdellengineering.com] 
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 12:35 PM
To: seaint(--nospam--at)seaint.org
Subject: Re: REVIT

I presumed that to be the case, but facing additional upfront license 
fees, along with the annual protection money (excuse me, "maintenance 
agreement"), just makes LT that much more attractive - the upfront cost 
of an LT license is less than annual maintenance on ADT. 

Jordan



Barry Welliver wrote:
> You can also use your ADT license to get a reduced price on REVIT
>
> Barry H. Welliver
> BHW Engineers L.L.C.
> barrywelliver2(--nospam--at)earthlink.net
>
>   

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